Is God just bluffing as a means to ensure we do not fall away even though He knows full well we cannot? I agree it is a dangerous precedent to say God chooses some and not others.this can also strengthen mans will to resist God by saying well God doesnt call me and I dont feel God so I will not search for God Im lost anyway so I might as well remain this way.I believe all people can jump off a building if they want or kill themselves That is their choice. And so that verse is clearly speaks they were never of us.If you are truly saved you cannot walk away from the faith It is Jesus himself said and the truth will set you free! I dont know where they get that idea that faith is works. You faith must be LIVED OUT, in other words. And so was he a special case of election? 21 It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them. We know how we feel about that significant other, but we are not quite sure how they feel about us. -John Piper. They will not inherit eternal life. Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10. Interesting! Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? An objective reader, not polluted with once saved always saved opinions, would conclude that John is saying no more than this; if they had been believers when they left us then they would have continued with us instead of leaving us. What is it that makes one person see a rabbit in an ink-blot when another person sees a child being sexually assaulted? Where is GOOD DEEDS? James 2:21 I want to be saved but i fear that i am an apostate. They have falled from grace because they are attempting to be justified by the works of the law rather than by grace. How do you figure? There is nothing you can do to lose your salvation and nothing you can do to prove you never had it. I dont have iTunes, nor do I know how to use it, if I had it. Wouldnt that prove that you never were truly saved in the first place? Chapter 17 of the Westminster Confession of faith defines it in this manner: Perseverance of the saints is the Calvinist doctrine that those who are truly saved will persevere to the end and cannot lose their salvation. On the other hand, let the Scriptures I provided be an encouragement and warning to you for your perseverance in holiness and righteousness. Merriam-Websters Collegiate Dictionary, Eleventh Edition defines assurance as: Pledge, Guarantee. John 15 is all about abiding in Jesus. Therefore, its not merely what we profess with our mouth that determines if we are saved but what sort of fruit we bear. He says the grace of God was given to them. I wrote an article on this verse and would be interested in some feedback. http://www.theheights.org/th_gallery/october-27-2013/#.VICIyGTF-rZ, But I found it here on Vimeo if you would like to fix the link: 2 Corinthians 13:5 NKJV Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Some people believe in the concept of "once saved, always saved" while others do not. Romans 8:24 For in this hope we were saved. Gal 1:9 (ESV) As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed. Faith on the Farm, Prevenient Grace: An Arminian Error SOTERIOLOGY 101, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ud4_sb7huo4, https://faithalone.org/jourvsnal-articles/secure-yet-scrutinized-2-timothy-211-13/, http://www.theheights.org/th_gallery/october-27-2013/#.VICIyGTF-rZ. For me the answer to all of those questions is YES. Praise His Name! Some IF statements for you to consider: Colossians 1:21-23 No matter how much we sin, once we get saved, God does not take back His gift Eph 2:8-9. Debate: Once Saved Always Saved (Calvinism) or Doing Enough Works to Who is Jesus? Colossians 2:13-14 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses,having wiped out thehandwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. If you still have doubts or ever do again check out Nabeel Qureshi, Sean McDowell or William Lane Craig or any other apologist for reasons why Jesus is who He says He is. Free Grace holds that it is possible for a true believer to fall away or fall into unrepentant sin or fall into legalism and that they do not lose their salvation or prove that it never existed as a result. ABSOLUTELY (Brian doesnt think so, but I do). If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself. And that the view that God saves a person when they first believe and that nothing that they will do can cause them to lose that salvation or prove they never had it, is unreasonable and unbiblical. For example a person can have faith in God or the finished work of Jesus Christ But Jesus has the power to deliver us from all evil. https://www.gracelife.org/resources/gracenotes/?id=37. . You can leave God. But I dont think obeying Christ qualifies for what I think youd call Human Works Because your doing what your Master is requiring you to do. If Abraham would have told God, NO, due to the request being CONTRADICTORY to the promisewould Abraham STILL be entitled to RIGHTEOUSNESS? A couple of things: (1) It seems this blog, I respectfully state, was more on opinion and less much less on the support felt from the Bible for this doctrine of OSAS. Is God really going to reward those who do not finish the race strong and live their life to the end for His Kingdom? Someone please help me. Where does God promise recognizable, lasting changes in a persons life as a part justification and regeneration? And children of God are not only unable to stop believing, they are unable to kick the Holy Spirit out and make Jesus break His unconditional promise, never to leave or forsake (Heb 13:5). One day when I was married to my first wife.I was watching religious programming and I felt guilty about my sinful life.I addressed Satan personally which I should not have done.I said Satan I am saved by the blood of Jesus Christ no matter what I have eternal salvation through his blood even though I was living sinfully.Just then it seemed that the room went dark It was like a supernatural event.I felt my heart beating in my head and I was paralyzed and fear and could not move. I still struggle with alcohol and lust. The law is not of faith, grace not given. there are moments for sure that i do think im saved but I want to be sure i dont want to continuously live in fear that when judgment comes God will take a look at my heart and throw me right into hellfire. However our condition (our practical experience) here on earth is far from perfect and santification is God bringing our condition in line with our position through our continued trust in and surrendering to Him. Which means the Calvinist brain cannot have one single impulse that he can call his own. I agree with you that children of God arent able to kick the Holy Spirit out and that God disciplines His children to produce fruit and he does not throw them into hell. Now this is a wonderful Bible promise that God has given us and it should inspire us all. Several functions may not work. Im not going through every verse you take out of context here in this comment section. Once Saved Always Saved Debate Answers - YouTube Even Satan knows the gospel inside and out. There is much more to this but it is too long. Once Saved, Always Saved Debate - YouTube Sometimes people have need for an argument to work so badly that they are willing to travel into the land of *IRRATIONAL* in order to convince themselves. It's the "once saved, always saved" idea that says, once you are saved, you're saved no matter how you may behave. Elect means chosen. Church For All Nations: Join us for the Dangerous Beliefs Debate: Once Saved, Always Saved. Yes he(Jesus) is faithful, but it has always been up to us to continue in our faith and choose Christ. There are a handful of other verses to include, but Ill stop there. Do you overcome the world? That happens immediately when you first believe. And I know he did the same for me :-] John 15 is on the same topic as 1st John is. He says in verse 22 Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? His grace is recieved through faith. I have come to understand now that salvation can be lost. Do you then suppose the same when Paul also said, the wages of sin is death? So, the primary error made in the "once saved always saved" debate is in not understanding that there is a period of testing between man's belief and when he actually receives the covenant. Yes, I agree that Jesus saves. If you go back to a sinful lifestyle it means you have never truly heard. But if you dont produce your allotmentyou are fired. I Think of Jesus who died for me and how much love he has for me. Along with granting ALTERNATIVES to each individual He also grants them CHOICE between those ALTERNATIVES How do you know if the test you have considered is a true test? Trusting in Jesus alone is relying on His work to save us rather than relying on our own. Would Abraham still be ENTITLED to RIGHTEOUSNESS that was PREVIOUSLY imputed to him? Choosing is nothing to boast. Where is Jesus in all this? I agree anyone who is in Christ is perfect. I thank the Lord for pulling you out of the path you were headed. Because he had faith in the promise of God. Is it True Once Saved Always Saved? - Christianity What has to happen? You try to make the point that shall means in the future and therefore you arent finally saved until you die Im assuming? so lets say you test your faith and you come to the conclusion that you are not saved, how do you become saved and then know for sure you are saved. Does save always mean saved from hell or does it simply mean delivered and context determines who is being delivered from what? That becomes unquestionable truth in his mind the exact same way a Geocentric universe was unquestionable truth for the Catholic Holy fathers in Copernicus day. Justification is based on one response of faith while sanctificaiton is based on continued responses of faith. https://www.gracelife.org/resources/gracenotes/?id=24, You had said: Deuteronomy 6:25 If you are interested in the responses to the verse in Corinthians and Colossians, {links to web-sites removed per system policy}. You believe that he is Lord. He didnt believe Jesus had risen from the dead. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. To do that you will want to keep company with believers who will are loving, Christ-like and a positive influence for you. All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die. Faith comes firstYOUR faith that Jesus saves. 1 Corinthians 9:26-27 (ESV) So I do not run aimlessly; I do not box as one beating the air. What is the TRUE Gospel of Christ? John Piper writes this about the doctrine: The true Christian is safe, but his safety is confirmed in his pressing on to make his final inheritance his own. I believe so! And here is where the irony appears because the urgency to find EDD within scripture backfires on him. Dont tell them to rely on their works post conversion to prove that they are saved. part of the purchase-money or property given in advance as security for the rest: And as you can see with the verses, and the definition, salvation hasnt happened yet. Either way .. great site and videos. So, she may have cared for her husband, liked him a lot, or been infatuated with him for a time, but she cannot rightly call what she had love. We cannot change the definition of the word to match ourbehaviors. Both Jesus and James talks about that. Did God pre-ordain them to jump in front of a car or jump off a building? Can you elaborate? It is not reasonable (or biblical) to believe that God fails in His promises of salvation, which include fulfilled promises of recognizable, lasting changes in this life. Hebrews 10:38 I will be forever thankful , I kinda believe in Conditional Security kinda like what Steve Gregg teaches. I am 40 years old now, and I want to repent from my addictions and idols and very very deep bad sins but I am afraid that their is no hope left for me. The question is whether they are able to stop believing and whether those who once believed and now dont have still been born of God. OSAS DEBATE (Once Saved Always Saved) - Facebook Romans 4:16 When I reached puberty I forgot about God and discovered girls.I got married at the age of 21 knowing that I would do what I want to do and I cheated on my wife at every chance I had. Yes, I agree with that statement. You must PROVE what you believe. This is evident in the Corinthian believers, in the Galatian believers and throughout the New Testament. Otherwise, where is the free will that YOU AND HE speak of? God has taught me the relationship between the family and how important it is and the Godhead.I know it sounds in an example of election but I know that I always had the choice. thats why Christ had to die. See 2Cor 13:5 where Paul clearly does this using you and then brethren (vs 11). 13:5), he also called brethren (1:8, 8:1, 8:23, 9:3, 9:5, 11:9, 11:26, 13:11), but not in any other way than any preacher would. And that is the conundrum with Calvinism. You could have strong faith in a leaky boat but you would still drown or you could have weak faith in a seaworthy boat but it would save you from drowning. Hello JT But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it. Dr. Andy Woods takes the strong position for a completely eternally secure salvation. Every impulse within every human brain is pre-programmed in advance by infallible decree ABSOLUTELY. Matthew 10:22 We have already experienced the wonderous grace of God and as a result we long for the redemption of our bodies when we will be completely conformed to the image of Christ and we will be with Him. Eternal life is life that does not end. 24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. Does anyone in Micas world ask that question? If it lasts, then its real. The room became bright again and everything went away.I couldnt believe that it happened I was like the apostle in prison when he realized the chains were removed. They never saw really saw results that the new birth produces. Jesus, with the LORD LORD examples, didnt I do this, this, and this in your name?get away from me, and James, where faith without works is dead. Can you Lose Salvation? Clearly its better not to have known about Christ in the scriptures above implying certainly less a consequence than those knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus. I think not, keeping in mind what it says about these 2 seeds in Matthew 13:20 they received the word (gospel) with joy. / believers that fall away. Suddenly EDD the most sacred divine truth within scripture magically disappears and no longer exists. Every impulse that appears within your brain does so by infallible decree. Yes, I also believe the sin nature is unable to undo what the new birth accomplished in that regard. believers are preserved. Whoever invented the phrase HUMAN MERIT didnt have a clue what they were even talking about. to expect with confidence; Expectation is defined as: Anticipation; Anticipation is defined as: The act of looking forward, and, visualization of a future event or state. (hebrew 10). You can only loose your spiritual maturity. Romans 12:2 Then if you keep going in that direction, you start sinning more. YOU CAN LISTEN TO THE NEW PODCAST BY CLICKING HERE. They perish like the beast of the field. Is 'once saved always saved' a biblical concept? - CompellingTruth.org I wish that people would stop trying to DELETE James statement that faith without works is dead. If he. Many of ushave gone through similar insecurities in dating relationships. Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. If you have to do something to keep your salvation then you are saved because of your works. The answer is logically No. It not scriptural and would make no sense. If only once you have a wrong desire you are condemned before Him. Neither can the word BRETHREN (see verse 1). br.d He is passionate and faithful. In that hope they WERE SAVED. We would obviously agree that those who currently believe have been born of God. Can a person who comes to faith in Jesus Christ lose his or her salvation? Were you baptized? https://truelyfanatic.wordpress.com/tag/salvation/. My salvation is based on Gods promise through the finished work of Christ on the cross and the Holy Spirit and He will never fail. Abraham was ALREADY RIGHTEOUS long before he WORKED, or, should I say, went to kill Isaac. When you first believe in Jesus, God forgives all of your sins, past, present and future, and the Holy Spirit comes into your heart and makes you spiritually alive. The idea that one can lose their salvation is logically inconsistent with scripture. Hello, Im new here, Ive read some but never commented. If you doubt Jesus after you have first believed that doesnt mean you never believed in the first place. LIVE what you believe, AKA LIVE YOUR FAITH. Brothers and Sisters, In Love I would like to share with you my study for some 6 months compiling scriptures and forming the truth of what I believe the Scriptures say about whether or not someone can lose their Salvation. The doctrine of once saved, always saved, also referred to as eternal security, has been the subject of much debate. Romans 6:1-14 Pauls answer is to point them to Christ, explaining their position and security in Christ and finally challenging them to present themselves to God and their members as instruments for righteousness. In 1st John 5:1 the only thing I would point out here is that John only says everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God. He does not address whether people are able to stop believing. You were never of him You were with him but not of him!! He quite naturally is going to have a critical need to find EDD within scripture But doesit say once a person is born again, it is impossible for him to lose his way and be lost? Your heart became a tabernacle for a living and loving god to dwell in. 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.